Ikigai Leadership Podcast: Dhru and VeeFriends Talk About Gary Vee and Twelve and a Half Continued

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:00:02] Hey, everybody. This is Dr. Dhru Bee, and I’m here to welcome you to my podcast, Ikigai Leadership. We’re going to be talking to leaders in all different industries from all different backgrounds and demographics from all over the world. And we’ll be discussing topics like leadership development, culture, DEI, content creation and marketing and all things business and entrepreneurship. If you haven’t listened to the first half of this conversation, be sure to go back to the last episode and listen to that one first.

Damon Johnson: [00:00:34] It’s so funny. I forget that it’s really a business book. It turned into therapy and I was like, Wait a minute, I’m supposed to be doing this? It’s hard to do that – I guess it’s the point – it’s hard to do that. I can say for my business for sure, when I do apply them, I make more money and it gets to be easier. But some days you look at people, you know, because we all deal with clients, customers, you’re like, I know you’re not talking to me like… you have to, I have to catch myself like… When I apply all the work or most of the work, I’m like, ah, I try to look at from the other person’s point of view. And also like with the client who called before about the podcast. I know you need a boundary. It’s not you, it’s me. I let you go too long without a boundary. So the book is true. You’re like, Oh, I got to teach you my language. Because right now we’re having foreign conversation because you’re saying something, I’m shaking my head and I’m really not agreeing with you, but I’m doing the international sign for I understand you like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I’m like, oh, no, he doesn’t know that. I don’t want to really do this because I’ve been doing it the past two podcast episodes. Now I got to put a wall up in business because I don’t have to have all the clients, I want to leave with some sanity so I can be positive for the other clients who we are on the same wavelength.

Ben Harbuck: [00:02:20] I think you’re bringing up a really good point, Damon, if you don’t mind me interrupting.

Damon Johnson: [00:02:24] No, come on.

Ben Harbuck: [00:02:25] That’s what has been so hard about the tattoo shop. Because we turn away more people than we tattoo. And people are going like, What are you doing? You can’t do that. And it’s like, No, I have really good friends now who don’t have tattoos because I talked them out of a bad decision when they were out on a girls night and they were peer pressuring each other to go get a tattoo. And then they came to us. And I’ve read this book and this book says the money doesn’t matter. Like literally this lady is about to, she’s a bank teller or she’s maybe a real estate agent or maybe even worse, she’s like a teacher, but in a very precarious political position in the part of town she’s in, she’s going to try to get some tribal tattoo on her arm. And guess what? She ain’t got a job Friday. And so, like for me, you bring it back around to yeah, we started it out with therapy, kind of. But the book being therapy. But now the book is back in how you, people, knowing that there’s worse things than losing a client. It’d be better to have a good client. Dhru, I was curious because you kind of started this off by surprising me, I guess I didn’t do my research, but, like, the coaching thing kind of triggers me a little bit because. Because like, the guys I know in East Texas that do that, they only want my $80 a week. That’s all they want, bro. You know, like and it’s like after six months, you’re like, man, I’m broke and my business isn’t doing any better.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:04:16] No, and I hate those guys, frankly. Right. Like Damon and I talked about this because the problem, one of the, I mean, not to get on this huge tangent, but with coaching specifically, there are a lot of things like this, a lot of professionals like this, right? Where there’s no real, there’s certifications, but there’s no real formal licensure process to become a coach. Right? And the same thing with social media managers, right? Anybody can wake up one day and say, you know what, I don’t like my job. I’m going to quit. Guess what? I’m a social media manager now. I’m a coach now. Ha! Now I have an Instagram.

Ben Harbuck: [00:04:45] You know what’s weird, though? The reason I can call you out is because we met. I’m calling myself out. Dhru, I taught myself how to tattoo. I bought a license from the state of Texas for 2500 bucks. Like I’m saying, you and me and Brittany and Damon, we’re all the same. We’re all the same people in different parts. Like, you can make up anything. And so you’re trying to do this with integrity. So I didn’t mean you triggered me from a bad place. I meant like, I have people that come in the tattoo shop tonight and they’re going to come in 15 minutes before close. And eight ladies who are drunk off their very cute behinds are going to want infinity symbols or crosses. And we could make another $600 in 20 minutes. Except that we’re going to coax them to come sit outside with us. Tell them we’ve locked up for the night. We’re going to bring out 12 bottles of water and we’re just going to sit there and get to know them. And people go, Why didn’t you get that money? Because it’s not the right thing to do.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:06:05] Prospective client. She reached out and she’s like, Hey, I need to do this assessment. And everyone said, I need to do this assessment, so I want to do this for my organization. I’m like, okay, I do that assessment, but let’s back up a second, why do you want to do this assessment? And she’s like, Well, everyone said, you need to, I need to do this because this is what I want to do. I said, okay, well, everyone’s wrong. You know, you don’t have to do the assessment. I’m like, There’s a cheaper way to do this, and there’s actually a better way to do this. And you don’t actually have to do it to do any of this stuff to get what you want to get. And I gave her a really simple solution that didn’t cost her, that’s not going to cost her anything. And she was like, Oh, really? I’m like, Yeah. She’s like, Well, you know, you don’t want to, you know, you’re not trying to sell me anything? She was like, just, you’re not trying to sell me? I’m like, it’s doing what’s best for the client. Because at the end of the day, the client is a person, right? And you show that empathy for that person, for who they are and what their struggles are because, yeah, I could get that money, but how am I going to feel about it in the morning, right?

Brittany Maas: [00:07:00] I was actually talking with someone the other day about a situation and you know, unfortunately there is desperation in sales where people will lie, cheat, commit fraud even, just to get a deal when, you know what is so bad about qualifying and disqualifying? What is so wrong with saying, hey, yeah, we could have collected $600. but that’s a transactional sale. And we’re not thinking about the impact that’s having because it’s not like they’re just going in a shop to buy $600 worth of cosmetics or some shit. You know, they’re putting something on their skin that’s going to be there, and like you said, who knows what their situation is? And they wake up in the morning, you know, and sure, they may not necessarily blame the shop, but are they going to go back? Whereas what if those ladies did want the tattoos and one of them’s probably going to remember where they went that didn’t screw them over. You know, like how much more word of mouth and reputation and establishment are you building for yourself? And if you only see the $600 dangling, the carrot dangling, go for it. But, you know, to me, you know, with that accountability and empathy and stuff like in the book and everything, why it’s so powerful for business, because it allows us to think about the people behind what we’re offering rather than simply just, Oh, I need to make from this, otherwise it’s not worth it.

Ben Harbuck: [00:08:37] Saturday, you’re going to see me on Tom’s live stream from Twitter getting a catfish tattoo, a V1 because I lost a box break to him. And he actually, he was so nice. He said, Ben, I want to let you out of this. And I said, Bro, I have Hello Kitty tattooed on me, like I have NFTs that were like rubbed like two years ago tattooed. Like, I’m okay. I know who I am. Right? But also to your point, Brittany, when the banker’s son wants a tattoo and he doesn’t want his son to get a tattoo, he sends his son to me now. And that’s why the heavily tattooed guy can walk past all the line of bankers and go straight to the president’s office and say, Hey, sir, I’ve got another business idea. Would you be interested in hearing it? Because he knows he’s met me. We’ve built a relationship, to your point. And so I know I love tattoos and I’m going to have bunches of them. But if you or Dhru or Damon show up tomorrow, I’m going to be like, hold up. Like, we need to talk. You know what I mean? Like, this is not a, this is a lifetime commitment we’re talking about and I don’t want to hijack this into tattoos. But it’s really what Gary is saying in the book. When you put these, you start stacking gratitude on top of accountability, on top of empathy, on top of kindness, and all of a sudden you’re going, Man, I might end up being a really happy old person instead of one of those, you know, we’ve all met them, those 70 year old people that are just like really bitter and angry and hate everything.

Damon Johnson: [00:10:22] 50 years old, frankly.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:10:24] I was gonna say, 50 year old, 40 year old people, you know. There’re 25 year olds out there right now who hate everything.

Damon Johnson: [00:10:31] Cranky. Because you know what? By you not doing it, you do it more not only for them, but for yourself. But they say all money’s not good money because like, with me, me and this podcast guy, I don’t feel bad anymore about telling him that boundary because I’ve put myself out there in the situation like, Hey, this is what I offer. This is what I think you should do for your social media, blah, blah blah, for your brand, here we are. He’s not doing them. So. I can get through the pearly gates. Like, look at this. You know, I was like, I did what I was supposed to do. And just like a regular human, they don’t, it goes in one ear out the other. So I don’t feel bad texting him. Even his approach tonight of texting me at 7:36 is wrong. Like brother, this is a 9 a.m. conversation. This is not a 7:30 conversation. The money will come. My best clients, I told this to Dhru, I walk in and presenting, They’re like, What are you doing? You’re already hired. Like when I walk in, they’re ready to work. They’re like, What are you doing? I thought, I gotta present. They’re like, present what? We see your, we see your work. They’re like, We watch your page. So the work is going to come. The money is going to come. With Gary, he’s like I don’t have to sell to the unsellable. If you don’t want a house, a mortgage or social media from me, great. Moving on. Because I used to be that guy who would walk in with the laptop and the pop-up and the flash drive with my presentation on it and the PowerPoint. Now I’m like, Listen, do you want me, yes or no? I don’t do all that anymore. I don’t care if it’s a company or individual. I’m like, Here’s my pages, here’s what I do. It’s a 15 minute meeting.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:12:32] And going back to what you said earlier, Damon, it’s about the money, right? Like the bad money. I don’t know if you guys know Ken Honda, right? Talks about the Happy Money and like, actually really interesting concept, right? His whole thing is like money is energy, right? And you can have good energy and you can have bad energy. And when you have bad energy around you, it’s going to affect the way you operate. You’re going to feel not great about it. Right. And that’s absolutely, I believe that personally, I think there is bad money. There is bad energy out there. If you get money through nefarious or malicious or, you know, means where you’re basically manipulating people into buying stuff that they don’t need, you know, like Wolf of Wall Street money, yeah, it’s a crap ton of money. But I mean it’s going to come back and bite you in the ass eventually. I really believe in karma, right? I mean, I was raised Hindu. I kept most of those beliefs. There’s some things that I’ve let go of which I don’t think are actually Hinduism, they’re more kind of the performance of stuff. But one of the things I definitely believe in is karma, right? And what you put out in the world, you put out kindness, you try to do the best you can for other people and for yourself, right? It comes back around to you. Maybe not in the timing. You think it will come back to you, right? But eventually.

Brittany Maas: [00:13:36] This, I think, reminds me like with conviction and that quality, because we have to believe in who we are, what we’re doing. I would say that chapter probably hit me the most personally since I have had to figure out my own convictions again. You know, having one way of life and then shifting to pretty much figuring it all out and everything. That really helped me kind of tighten things up because yeah, when we know who we are, you get to that point where it’s a lot easier to set boundaries. It’s a lot easier to be like, No, it’s too late in the evening for us to be talking. You’re not my family. Like, I like you. You’re a good contact. And maybe in time there might be more of a relationship or something where it’s okay. But to assume that and then to cross those boundaries and stuff, yeah, it gets a lot easier to just be like, This is what I have, this is what I’m offering. I’m not available during this time. I’ll talk to you tomorrow. It’s a lot easier.

Ben Harbuck: [00:14:47] The book definitely puts all the things together. It’s almost just like an easier pill to swallow, to your point, Brittany. You know, whenever it seems like conviction was something that for me, and you seem to be saying from your past too, conviction was tied to something different in a religious sense for us in our experiences, but in this case, the decision and sticking with it, it’s just like, Oh, so that’s just a human thing I can work on. I can start building this foundation. And I’m not going to disagree with how Gary, but I do remember reading the 12 and going, man, I would have put kindness ahead of this one and I would have put conviction ahead of that one, you know, and like and, but I do remember that. But he had a completely different, you know, experience. I mean, I grew up raising my own food. You know, we had a three-acre garden, man. Like that was my life as a child. Like some people didn’t have that experience. So it makes them go in a different order.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:15:52] I love that. I think that’s a good point, Ben, which is that, you know, there are all the human, kind of human elements, I think whatever order you choose to put them in, this is Gary’s order, you have your order. We kind of each have our own order. And whatever experiences we’ve had in our life, some people are better at some of these than others, right? And back to your muscle-building point. Right? Some people are really good at like 5 of these or even 11 of these. And then there’s those other people who just need to work on many of these. And it’s, and to both of your points, Damon and Ben, about the readiness, right, you got to be ready to kind of make that step and push through. And maybe you do one at a time, right? Really focus on that and add on as you go. At least that’s the way I process things and figure out like, okay, for me listening to it a couple of times because I want to really absorb it and understand it and then jump in and do the exercises. I think for me, that’s, that’s where the rubber meets the road for me is kind of getting these things, doing these things, because it’s like that’s the fear piece of it. To your point where it’s like, I’m not, differently from you I’m not afraid of not being able to do it. I’m afraid of not doing it, you know what I mean? Of not taking that step. And I told Damon this before about my YouTube channel, which was, I had recorded a bunch of videos many, many times before I launched my, actually launched my channel. And I just never posted them because I’m always, Oh, I can’t post that one, my voice sounds weird. I can’t post that one, I just look weird. That background looks weird, I can’t do that. You know, like you make up reasons why it’s not going to work.

Brittany Maas: [00:17:15] And Gary’s like, Get over yourself.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:17:16] Exactly. Like that’s what…

Damon Johnson: [00:17:18] When in doubt post it out.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:17:20] Just post it, right? And just put it out there.

Ben Harbuck: [00:17:22] I mean, I’m so fascinated like that you invited us and then now we’re here having this conversation because I’m just going like, Man, I would really like to have like five more of these. We could do an hour on Brittany’s background. We could do an hour on Damon’s switch from schoolteacher to mortgage. You know, we could do an hour with Ben on gardening, you know, so, like, you know, it would just, it’s such a fascinating thing. And what’s funny that strikes me about some of, sometimes, I don’t know if you guys feel this way, but like I see the big streamers or the big YouTubers or the people that appear popular in the VeeFriends community. And I’m going to say that again ‘appear popular’, guys, everybody has apparently decided I’m a big deal in VeeFriends cards. And Brittany, to your point earlier, I get up in the morning and I look at myself and I go, What? You’re just a guy. Like, you’re just a dude and all of it. And people are like, Your card collection is amazing. I started six weeks ago.

Damon Johnson: [00:18:47] But you know what’s so funny?

Ben Harbuck: [00:18:49] It’s cool, I guess.

Damon Johnson: [00:18:50] The community has changed. I’ve been around long enough. How can I put this in a nice way? When we had nothing to buy, your popularity, my popularity was based on content. Content and, yeah, content and your character, I should say. Now it’s like I bought a shit ton of 12 books to get the Vee2s. You couldn’t get the boxes. Before you could just get the boxes willy-nilly. How you can get them now. If you didn’t have the book, you weren’t getting the box. So now I’ve kind of not taken a step back, but now I just look sometimes. Now, for me, maybe it’s just me. It is so based on, I say 60% on who has the most cards. Who’s, there is, it’s weird. And I must sound like an old fuddy-duddy. The originality of what got me here, I don’t see a lot in the VeeFriends community anymore. Like the weirdness of us all. When, you know, when you see a Damon video, like, Oh shit, what is he doing? We were known for that. You shouldn’t be a star because you got more cards than everybody. What the fuck is that about? You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s very…

Ben Harbuck: [00:20:23] And you also, can I let you all in on a secret? The card community – I know this is public, Dhru – the card community has tiers and they have like, the top ten characters in tier one, the next ten in tier two, and the next ten card top characters in tier three. Me and my brother are grading all the cards that aren’t in those. Damon, to your point, we have like 500 characters graded that nobody cares about.

Damon Johnson: [00:20:57] It’s so weird.

Ben Harbuck: [00:21:00] I mean, like, because we’re having fun.

Damon Johnson: [00:21:03] It’s so weird.

Brittany Maas: [00:21:04] That’s what, like, that’s the purpose of the cards. I mean, the trading and everything. That’s all part of it. But it’s not about a popularity contest.

Damon Johnson: [00:21:15] I was so pissed off that people were selling seats to watch you open a box. Are you fucking kidding me? I was like. It’s people, I’m spoiled and blessed…

Brittany Maas: [00:21:30] I’ll pay to get some of the cards but I won’t pay to watch.

Damon Johnson: [00:21:31] There’s people who haven’t eaten tonight. And if your first impression of VeeFriends community is I’m paying $1,000 to see this, to see Ben open a box, what the fuck? Is this what we’re going to be known for? We were known for our differences and our commonality with the VeeFriends mantra. This whole popularity, like I told you, I got my ten boxes. I don’t even feel like opening them on camera because I’m like, what does this got to do with content and being creative and being innovative and being different with your camera phone? When did this shit turn into a popularity, because it’s the who has the most money contest now.

Ben Harbuck: [00:22:19] But that’s my point, is that I love what, I agree, I’m with you. 100%. I’m with all y’all. But I love what Dhru’s doing. And I’m just curious, Dhru, do you have the same sometimes insecurity that I do, where you put a video out and like two days later it has 33 views, and you’re like, Dang, nobody likes me.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:22:47] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, dude. I mean, much of what you guys talked about tonight, I have the same insecurities and the same thoughts go through my head. I mean, in terms of, like, what you said about not being kind to yourself. That’s absolutely my mental voice. A lot of the time. Right? People talk about imposter syndrome and stuff like that. I absolutely have that, right? It definitely, it never goes away fully. I’ve worked on it like crazy, but it never fully goes away. It’s always a constant struggle. But absolutely. I mean, I put a video up and I’ll be happy if it gets 33 views in two days. Do you know what I mean? I’m like, Oh shit, I got 33 views, oh yeah, that’s crazy, you know? But it’s like, it’s one of those things where, you know, these kind of conversations, I love them because it’s like bringing people together, building a community around something that’s not just physical, right? It’s not some physical thing. And don’t get me wrong, the card thing for me, it’s fun. It’s like I only got the two back there. Whatever, right? But, like, it’s fun. But I think this is where the values are at, right? The value is that in these conversations where we can kind of talk through stuff and understand like, Hey, oh shit, Ben has a similar experience to me. Brittany had a similar experience to me or similar challenges, similar beliefs. How can we come together and talk about these things and say, Hey, you know what? We all got different things out of the book or got them in different ways, but this book was actually still really impactful for each of us in different ways. And how we digest it is very different because we’re different people, but we still enjoyed it in different ways. Right?

Brittany Maas: [00:24:12] I’m still digesting it since in first in line, I help moderate there, and we’ve been working on developing the content and engaging and working on rebuilding the community on Facebook. And we started doing monthly themes and I presented let’s use Twelve and a Half because quite frankly, it’s not always easy to come up with crazy themes and stuff and we don’t really want to, we want it to be easy and simple. And most of the people in that community are either fresh into business, contemplating entrepreneurship, or more experienced, but they’re trying to figure out how to expand and how to grow. And so a lot of the content is being developed around business and growth. So now each month we don’t always use a quality from the book since as time goes on, they want to use other books too, especially since Gary’s coming out with the jab, jab, jab, left hook. But basically, you know, the community as a whole is working at a main theme each month, and some of the exercises or scenarios, I try to kind of work into some of the posts as well as other people and stuff. And I would say overall, even though it’s not like we’re getting a gazillion responses to things, we know people are enjoying it and growing from it. And I always remember too, like Gary talks a lot about how the fact he doesn’t care if it’s one person that he’s talking to or a thousand or more, it doesn’t, like, to him, he will come on podcasts that have few viewers. I mean, he followed my fucking Twitter account when I had 30 people. I didn’t even ask him to follow me. Like, that’s Gary, and so through this project, I’ve been remembering, like leaning into that a little bit and recognizing he doesn’t give a shit if nobody comments on a post. So let’s just put it out there and try it. And overall, I like it because it’s helping me work through the book more.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:26:31] I’m saying that that’s awesome. I appreciate it and I’m glad you guys, I really appreciate you guys. I haven’t told you enough that I appreciate all three of you guys coming on and talking about it. And Ben, to your point, I’m happy to do this, get the four of us together and talk as often as you guys want. I mean, honestly, this is the kind of fun stuff I enjoy doing, like I said, so.

Ben Harbuck: [00:26:46] Well, and I know Josh really enjoys these type of conversations. Damon, the only thing I would say remember about the cards is, some of us are still the same people we were. Me and my brother are having so much fun making these videos. We’re just literally learning about how to make videos. We end up crying, we’re laughing so hard, you know? And me and him have never made content together, you know? So it’s like this new thing where I’m seeing this new side of my 38 year old brother and he’s freaking out about this graded card that’s backwards in the CGC box. And everybody in the comments is like, send it back, make them give you a refund. And we’re like, they graded it backwards, that’s awesome. It’s gonna be on my shelf forever.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:27:43] And now it’s a limited edition.

Brittany Maas: [00:27:48] Honestly, so like my only cards I have so far, Josh gave me, sent me a pack, or like some of the cores, and then a teacher gave me some, but he actually, like he drew on his, and I actually want to get this one at least like covered. And I don’t know what to do with it at this point because I’m still learning like I’m going to the show this year to learn.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:28:13] I’m applying what I learned from comics with the cards because the same idea. CGC does comics too. And I’m a huge nerd with comics. Like I go to ComicCon in Baltimore every year to sell my book, but like it’s always just I always love comics and stuff like that. So I definitely know CGC through that. I didn’t even know they did cards.

Damon Johnson: [00:28:28] See, I’m a work in progress. I’m channeling my inner, where were you at when I was at the card conference three years ago? It wasn’t this buzzer. I was like this.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:28:40] Yeah, I wrote a novel a couple years ago, so it’s on Amazon. I sell it every year at ComicCon in person. I got a table there every year and sell it there.

Ben Harbuck: [00:28:49] Wait, what? Are you just gonna keep that from us for your private fans or…?

Damon Johnson: [00:28:53] That’s for the next…

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:28:54] No, that’s the next episode. No, that’s the plug. Hear more about the book.

Ben Harbuck: [00:28:59] Damon. Damon’s eyes are drooping. Okay, Damon’s getting tired, and I’m a grandma.

Damon Johnson: [00:29:05] You know, at 10:00, I’m like this.

Brittany Maas: [00:29:08] It’s 7:00 here, so.

Damon Johnson: [00:29:10] Oh, wow. See? No wonder.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:29:12] It’s still bright outside where Brittany is like, where the hell? So but thank you guys so much for coming in. Ben Damon, Brittany, you guys. I mean, great conversation. Like I said, happy to do it again every time we want to. And we’ll do, we’ll keep talking either way on Twitter. But thank you guys so much. Hope you enjoyed the conversation, guys. Comment below. What your favorite dimension, what your favorite quality of business owners that Gary mentioned in Twelve and a Half. If you’ve not read it, definitely check it out. It’s definitely worth the read or multiple reads as we’ve talked about already, or half a read, do as much as you can and get through it. So thanks a lot. Thank you guys all.

Dr. Dhru Bee: [00:29:50] Thank you all so much for listening to the Ikigai Leadership podcast today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a five-star review with comments to let me know what you thought. It really helps me keep on delivering valuable and relevant content to you all, and if you want to connect with me directly, please feel free to do so on my socials. That’s at @DhruBee on Twitter, at @DhruvaBee on Instagram and LinkedIn, it’s linkedin.com/in/dhrubee. Thank you all so much. Take care. Stay safe. Talk to you soon.